Welcome to A Magical Life, health, wealth and weight loss podcast. Today we are with Kaye Doran talking about Self Leadership To Overcome Bullying.
Kaye is a wife, a mother, and a grandmother. I don’t believe her because she looks so young and she’s also a businesswoman.
She started her business 30 years ago in personal and professional development, meditation, shamanic healing and coaching. She had a few issues going back into the workforce, which we’ll discuss. And that actually brought up something that a lot of people face, which is bullying.
Kaye’s business is called Inner Expressions and it’s all about personal leadership starting from within and changing the outer expression of ourselves and our lives.
Kaye, tell us a little bit about your story here. We just mentioned that you came across some bullying. You experienced some bullying, but tell us what led up to that, Kaye?
“So in my 20s, I was sort of thrust into a situation that I believe chose me rather than me choosing it. So I started off running meditation groups, the groups would grow and everyone was seeking my insights. I have a natural ability of that, you know, to know actually what’s going on with people and for people.
I am also a qualified master coach and qualified trainer as well and it developed into a business. I did full time personal professional development, coaching, traumatic energy healing work as well, and I loved it. It was at a time when I was bringing babies into the world.
But you know, it continued to grow. I was being interviewed on radios, traveling across Australia, and also working overseas a little bit, but not so much. I just love working with people and I had men in the group there as well, but it seemed to become more and more predominantly about women, which I just love. I just love seeing women step into their power, their self acceptance, their authenticity of actually who they are.
I went through a divorce and raised children then I was on my own for a bit and I was fortunate enough to find a fabulous man. I got to a point in my life in my 40s, where – this might sound weird, but I felt that I needed to grow. I needed some challenges for myself and if I was to do it, now was the time to do it before I looked way too old, on a piece of paper, or on a resume.
So I downscaled my business to sort of, on the side after hours and I managed to get a position as a manager in training in a jewellery store. As you can imagine they are all predominantly, female based in jewellery, and it’s an incredibly aggressive sales industry.
Of course, they were like, Who the hell is this woman? What background does she have? And of course, I was selling better than their top sellers. My shock was, I’ve spent years – over 20 years where people would seek me out. They were wanting to grow, they were wanting to better themselves, wanting to hear what I had to say. And I think I went in a bit naive as to just how aggressive it can be out there.
I was starting to experience some bullying there, and my manager was a younger male and he wouldn’t let me have a voice. Until in the end, it became so distressing that I went, “I’m either walking out or you let me address this group.” So, he was very nervous. I think maybe because I’m a strong confident woman, I don’t know, maybe he thought I’d be too aggressive or something. But I’m very good at dealing with people and communicating.
So we got them together the next morning and I basically communicated with them and by the end of it, their heads are all hanging in shame. And the truth revealed itself, which was, “Kaye, you have no formal training, and you’re probably the best sales professional we’ve ever come across ever.”
Well, you know, when you’re standing there, and I was emotional, and it’s okay to be emotional. It was a tough situation. And I’m like, you know what, I came in here to learn from you all, but I also believe I had things to bring to share with you. I just wanted us to give to each other and build something beautiful and then the question comes, “why would you treat another human being like this? What have I done, tell me what I’ve done that would warrant this kind of behaviour?”
When you call people on things, but you do it non aggressively, you don’t do it with anger. You do it from you know, a place of personal empowerment and a genuine desire to want to uncover the truth. It’s non-threatening then. Do you know what I mean? What they’ve been putting on me, I put back onto them in a gentle way and also showed my vulnerability, my humanity. And it’s like, why? Help me understand why you would be so nasty to me, tell me what I’ve done that would deserve it. And that’s when you see the heads go down, you know, and I told them, I was getting ready to walk and I didn’t want to walk.
I wanted to grow and become part of a team and learn and progress into management. So then I did end up in management, and a new manager came into the business, a new regional manager and he was all cocky and he made some bad choices, and put someone into a store that I’ve been working towards improving myself and getting results doing everything that was asked of me, and someone came in who had come from a corporate job, and they handed her this store and I’m the sort of person where I would speak up when I felt like it was something needed to be done.
And again, I just questioned. You know, you told me I could have this store if I’d achieved this, this, this, this and this and you put me in different stores and I achieved it and, and in the end, of course, he didn’t like the fact that I’ve done that and he found a way to get rid of me.
So more bullying, and I was just astounded at all the different industries that I went into, that I had bullying. So I wanted to progress into area management, but because I was so good at sales and building, I dismantled toxic teams and brought in people, and built teams where it was about trust, having each other’s back, selling professionally, not just cutting the bottom line out of everything, so they kept giving me the troublesome stores.
Now when someone’s hiring someone from area management, they want you to be running the biggest stores. So I did a sideward step and became a district sales manager for Avon. So I ran 300 representatives, which are all their own business owners and 50 suburbs, probably the biggest job I’ve ever done yet, and you wouldn’t believe it’s incredible reporting. And there I didn’t experience bullying, but the woman that hired me, moved on, and then they brought in another regional, and she was very old school.
The challenge that came from me then was she wanted me to take my team into car parks and approach people getting out of cars. Oh my goodness. That was a major, go against my integrity levels, seriously against who I am and what I’m about, and really against my integrity.
But you know what leadership is, I have to get out there and do it. I couldn’t complain and just carried on to the girls and said, “Look, I don’t agree with it but this is what we have to do.” And I started to experience anxiety in the middle of the night before waking up to go to work.
It was that far removed from who I believed myself to be. So then I managed to get into area management and I found myself in steel cap boots and high-vis, standing out at the airport looking after car rentals, seven different locations and a city location. And, I can tell you I’m standing there with all of my background going what the?? What am I doing here?”
We could imagine your head was kind of spinning.
‘You know from personal professional development, coaching, mindset, to all of that. Steel cap boots and out the airport and running a team of over 50 people and now I experienced the bullying there because I have no car rental experience. And you can imagine them going, “Oh, ding-dong Avon calling, ‘she’s what, she’s worked for Avon’. She’s worked in jewellery. She’s had her own business in personal professional development and coaching. Who does she think she is?” Because there were people there that had applied for the role that have been in car rental for 15 years.
So you can imagine what I was in – a very toxic team. The person before me hired all their friends and some of them couldn’t speak particularly brilliant English and it was very cliquey. So again, I just, you know, by then it’s like, doesn’t bother me.
I know who I am, and I’ll dismantle who I need to dismantle and build new teams. Then I experienced bullying from upper management and, and a betrayal from someone that I’ve actually helped out. And there was a – it was a redundancy night, and I left that very empowered.
But it made me stop and think, going, Oh my god, I’m in my 50s. I’m never going to betray myself again like this ever. I will never go against my integrity levels. I will never stay in a job for the sake of money because I really wanted to leave that, that car rental business and I thought I’ll do it on my terms.
But it was such a busy business. I was up and out of the airport by 6:30 in the morning, not back to maybe 6:30 at night. Exhausted and available by phone 24/7. So, you know, the time to go find that other job and leave on my terms didn’t happen. Do you know what I mean? So yeah. I put on twenty kilos. And I’ve never done that before. And just when this is not worth it, money’s not worth it. Do you know what I mean? There’s got to be a line in the sand. “
Bullying is one thing that’s an external influence, but the internal influences, it’s quite fitting that your business is called Inner Expressions because you were trying to express your inner thoughts and your belief systems through these positions and getting met with resistance all along the way.
“But the good news is, I mean, during that time I said goodbye to the 20 kilos, I’ve had car accidents in my time, none of them my fault because it sounds terrible when you go, I’ve had three. But my body was in pain and I needed to come back to who I am and where my boundaries are, and integrity. And that’s when I ended up getting a coach.
I was approached by a multi-level marketing business and I thought, okay, I’m never going to be in this position again. I’m going to get a coach to help me build that business, and then I can branch off into coaching. And my coach after two sessions said, “For God’s sake Kaye, you’re a coach through and through,” so it all flipped. So that’s when I started that I’m coming back to, and I realized everything I’ve been learning, my relatability had deepened as well. My resilience. Ways of empowering myself.
You know, in that final redundancy, I seriously empowered myself and left all that muck they put onto me back in the lap of this particular gentleman. And I heard he was very angry for a month afterward. I recommitted to myself and my values and who I am and what I’m about, and it brought me back to my coaching. Then I did create another role as a state trainer.
Now, I knew I’d integrated all the lessons, because this time, I had really positive people around me. I managed to build and train a group of 12 amazing women of all different ages. I was there to coach them, to train them in the sales and they loved me, they appreciated my skill sets. One woman tried to bully me and I nipped that in the bud straight away and took control of that. So when I left that role, I really did leave feeling like I had completed a full 10 year cycle because I was out in the workforce for 10 years.”
“I had finally gotten some closure through personal growth and you know what, I wouldn’t change any of those experiences because I’d had these great aspirations early on in my business. And there was a part of me that as I left that business behind, I knew it was for a reason but felt like, “Had I failed?” No, I hadn’t because there are times that – things will happen at the right time, not always our time. And the jump that I was making, I needed all those skill sets.
I needed those experiences. I needed to grow into the woman that I am today, to have elevated my business to women’s leadership and life coaching, and get people past their comfort zones. Get women back into the driver’s seat of their life and get their boundaries set and get their values clear. I wasn’t ready before. I was, you know, the work I was doing was fabulous. But sometimes the experiences that come to us are actually designed for us to grow into the person we’re aspiring to become.”
How does that translate to people’s health, Kaye?
“Well, look what happened to me. 20 kilos on I didn’t realize how much stress I was living under, you know, my health was nowhere near as good because I was continually betraying my deepest values.
In the positions that I was in, fear started to rule because – and this is what happens to a lot of women – well I can’t change the job, because I need the money. There are things that we can master ourselves through, but the betrayal of self, shifts the mindset. It lowers the mindset, it lowers the emotional resistance, and then, of course, it lowers the immune system. Look what happened – 20 kilos, I’ve gone up and down in my life, but never before, had I carried 20 kilos, all that self protection I was putting on, so frail of ourselves and the betrayal of our values, and the loss of our dreams is really destructive.”
Now what would be your top tips to create wealth bit emotional, spiritual or financial?
“You know what? Wealth comes in all sorts of different areas. So we all actually have wealth.
You know, someone might have more money, but their relationship might not be as good as what you’ve got. So we all have wealth. So what we need to recognize is that we all have a capacity set in all those different areas of our life.”
We think it’s really important because when we talk wealth, when we were setting this podcast up, we had people saying, but are you going to talk about money? And we said no wealth is so encompassing. Money is just one of the endpoints. If you don’t believe in yourself, if you don’t value yourself, you cannot value currency.
“And it was interesting because someone posed a question on Facebook the other day ‘is money the root of all evil?’ Well, you know what money is energy. Money is just a note. It’s what we do with it, that gives it value or makes it something not so nice. Do you know what I mean? “
Wealth is all of that. So, you know, we need to address all those different areas and we have a preset capacity for success, abundance, love and joy in all those different areas.
How would you expand that capacity?
“Conscious intention and understanding when you reach that capacity, there’s something I call the tipping point. The Tipping Point is what brings us back. So say for example, in finance. If you get to the point where you’re at your full capacity, have you ever noticed or seen it with others where suddenly unexpected bills come in, or something happens to the car, you know, something is created for that money to go back out again, to bring them back to that comfort side of that capacity of their allowing.
The same thing happens in relationships. You know wealth to me encompasses success, abundance, love and joy. So in a relationship, if you’ve got a capacity for so much love and joy and connection with your partner, for example, or even friendships, and you reach that full capacity, you’ll create an argument or a disagreement or something to bring you back.
So we need to recognize when we’re reaching our tipping points, so that we become self-observant. We have to start observing where we are at. We have to start looking at what the stories that we are telling ourselves? Like I used to say years and years ago in my early 20s, “Oh, I’ve always got just enough.” So I always had just enough. That’s where I was expecting it.
So having the intention to expand your capacity, having the willingness to look at the patterns of what you do, and how you – where your tipping point is and what you do to bring yourself back and the intention to expand it. Now the thing here that is really important, is when you expand your capacity.
Let’s say it’s in finances, and you’re already earning 55,000, but you’d love to be earning 100,000 but that takes you way beyond what you believe that’s absolutely possible. So it constricts you. You’ve got to bring it to a point where you might go out but okay, I could do 75 and I’m really comfortable with that you want a little bit of discomfort. So take it to 85.
Here’s an analogy. If you go to play a game of tennis and you don’t enjoy playing with someone that’s on the same level of skill that you are. There’s no challenge in that. It becomes a bit of a boring game. But if you go to play a professional tennis player, you go on to that court knowing you’ve got no hope in hell of winning that game. Yet at the same time, you don’t go asking Serena Williams for a game. You have to make it just within your reach, something to go towards without defeating yourself. If you find someone that’s better than you, a bit better than you, and you go on there, full of that hope and potential.
Now, this might be tough, and I’ll have to pull out everything I’ve got, but I might have a chance here. So that’s the same with expanding our capacity in different areas. Don’t blow it out. So you’re playing against the professional going, this is never going to happen. But don’t keep it so it’s so safe like playing tennis with a partner that’s equal to you.
Reach that point and then go, “Do you have a little bit of discomfort?” Because that’s part of your drive. Do you know what I mean? I’ve got a chance here. Or the same thing when I – you know, when I was looking at that 20 kilos, I – that was overwhelming to me. But if I brought it down to five kilos, then five kilos, and when I’d done the first five, and the second five, or 10 was easy after that.”
So we’ve covered a little bit about your inner expression, and how that relates to people around you. We’ve covered a little bit about wealth. And something else we talk about here is weight loss, and we have mentioned it a few times already today. But what has your experience taught you about weight gain or weight loss?
“Generally that we’re protecting ourselves. And, you know, part of the thing is learning to love ourselves regardless, I mean I still loved myself with the weight on, but no longer liked having photos taken of me and getting things like a little bit of criticism, but I had to look at what was I protecting myself from?
Well, if you look at the background and at the airport and you know, slowly getting bigger and bigger and bigger, I was protecting myself from all the, you know, the self-betrayal I was doing to myself. So swallowing back things, does that make sense? And the beginning of also losing that the thing is really interesting with anything, the more you focus on something.
You can’t lose the weight by constantly carrying on about oh my god, I’m fat. I’m 20 kilos heavier. I’m there because you just keep creating that self-fulfilling prophecy the same as if you’re always wanting, you’ll forever be in a state you’re wanting.
Change doesn’t happen by seeing yourself where you are now, change happens because you start to build a vision of your desired outcome, your aspirations.
Were there people around you that were saying things about your weight, or did you manage to block all of that out?
No, I’m surrounded by incredibly supportive people. My husband would comment, but hey, he put on 27 kilos as well, but he always let me know that he loved me. And it didn’t matter what I was trying back then. Isn’t it interesting? It didn’t matter what I was trying. It didn’t do anything until I realized I’d been betraying myself. I’ve been keeping myself in a position that was – not a position of being treated with respect, or feeling valued, or allowing myself to be somewhere where I’d outgrown if that makes sense.
There was one moment when I went to Melbourne to visit my mother. This was a turning point for me and we were out for dinner and I was chatting her up for dinner and she leaned over and grabbed my excess fat and said, “So, don’t you ever move?” Oh my god, I was so angry because in my job I was on my feet the whole time and moving cars and walking up to counters and throughout the airport and stuff. But you know what, I needed that to happen.”
So at that point, she physically grabbed you and said don’t you move, what was going through your head?
“You know what, just rage, disgust. How could my mother do that? But I realized it was all my own feelings about myself. My own outrage, my own disgust, my own anger unexpressed. Do you know what I mean? We talked through it. But I’ve also realized that it really wasn’t about her. Because if I was really okay with myself, it wouldn’t have triggered.
That’s something we need to really point out to our listeners here today. And that is, people will say things around you all the time, whether it’s about your weight or your looks, or the clothes you’re wearing or the money that you have. That’s not about you, it’s about them. And it’s about their perception and their values and belief systems.
You are just the catalyst that lets them think that’s okay to say. It’s really not about you. And the only time it is about us, because you’re spot on. The only time it is about us is if we react. We are reacting to something old. So it’s about being proactive and reactive. And that’s why I used to have lots of nasty things said about me. But I don’t bring that in anymore because I’ve done the inner work of that self-acceptance of integration.
Someone said to me years ago, “You’re so intense.” And I took such offense to that until I saw everybody like, Yes I am. Thank you. I realized I’m passionate and I have an intensity, because I’m passionate about people and I’m passionate about what I want and what I do. I’m passionate about supporting people and elevating people and then I went, “too intense for Who?”
And when that resolve happened, anyone now could come out and say that to me and I wouldn’t give two hoots. So yes, it’s about them. But if it triggers something in you, then you are reacting to something out of something old. And you know what? Bless them. Because we wouldn’t be able to uncover it and discover it and reclaim it if we weren’t triggered.
You’ve gotta stop pointing that finger and go, “Well, if I’m reacting, it’s triggering something in me,” you know? And that’s all my mother did. She just triggered something in me. Was it a bit thoughtless? Yeah, but I’m a 55 year old woman now and this was three years ago or so, but I’m very quick to go and move beyond that, “How could she?” and all the rest of it and go,” Hold on a moment, Kaye. If you’re really okay, internally with all of this, that wouldn’t have mattered, you just would have gone mom. Seriously? Not nice.”
“I’ve had said that to a few people around me. You know, when they say things about my weight, and I just say, “That’s one of those quiet thoughts that you have. You don’t need to say it.” Yeah, I taught my kids when they were little, you know, when they go to school and sometimes teachers wouldn’t be fair and I’d say to them, you don’t need to say this out loud. But you can say it to yourself. You know, you don’t have my permission to speak to me like this. So they can empower themselves.
But I think, you know, part of that personal leadership is, if someone’s triggered something, yes, you probably going to get caught up in pointing the finger at them, but reel it back in. Reel it back in and go, “if it was really no issue, I wouldn’t be triggered, I wouldn’t be reacting. So what is it that I need to? What is it that I need to come to terms with to take ownership of and integrate?” Because then it won’t, it won’t matter what someone externally says. And in the end, when it’s really integrated. You won’t even be creating that scenario, that experience.
What can you offer the listeners today when they get in touch with you?
“On my web page (www.kayedoran.com), go to resources and there are some guided meditations there and one of them is expanding your capacity. I’m currently turning my power up your life workshop into a free resource. So soon you’ll be able to go on there and download the workbook and I’ll have the video tutorials to go with that. But I’d also like to offer the first – the first four that get in contact with me a free coaching session.”
“You know what, I’m not one of those coaches that has any hidden agendas. I just love to help people transform and change.”
Now Kaye, at the start of a conversation, we said that you’re a grandmother and you certainly don’t look like it, how many grandkids do you have?
“Within the next two weeks, I’ll have my fourth grandson. Now the eldest one is actually like a step grandson, but we don’t do steps in our place, it’s just family. So yeah, the other three are ours, my husband’s and mine. So a little four year old, and about an 18 month old, and then my eldest daughter is about to give birth anytime now. And in the next two weeks, so. I never thought I want would want to be called grandma.
I always thought I didn’t sort of fit the bill. And I have to say to you, you know, changing perceptions. Yeah. When our oldest boy came to us and said, Wow, we’re pregnant. The first one, I’m like, Yeah, Nana! And he went, “No, sorry. Elaine’s mother’s Nana.” You know, I think you need to be a grandma and I walked away. And this is how changing our perception can just change the way we feel about everything. I walked away and I sat with it and then I went ‘grand mother’, I’m the grandmother and I saw it completely different. Not like the grey haired old lady with the bun, but the grandmother, you know, sitting on her throne almost, to like a priestess kind of imagery.”
We love that and that’s why we asked you about that. And it is really about our perception. And when we’re given titles, or descriptions, whether it’s from someone else or from ourselves. It’s saying that with a different clarity and a different perception in a way that serves you. And we just love how you’ve done that.
“I’ve looked – before getting on here I did a very quick Facebook Live on perception and about, you know how – how quickly we can change experiences in our life by changing the way we view it in our perception, just like I did with the, “No no no, I’ll never be grandma” and now I love called grandmother, you know?”
We hope you enjoyed this episode with Kaye Doran on Self Leadership To Overcome Bullying. You can find Kaye at www.kayedoran.com plus on Facebook and LinkedIn.
In episode 14 we have Aline McCarthy coming on. Aline is the lead practitioner at The Wellness Witches. She’ll be talking about health and the complicated inner journey that it can take.
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